Q. engagement, dulang hantaran and dowry...

Asker's comment:

ok... sorry...
i forgot abt the questions...

accroding to the numerical sequence as above;

i noe arguments are inevitable in r'ships,but questions are:

1) he will nvr fail to bring up the subject that he was forced into getting engaged with me bcoz it was what i want, not him. should i juz ignore him and go on with my parents' wishes or vice versa?

2) same case over here. but recently, he told me that whatever dulang he give me, it will not be sincere. and he will not receive any dulangs i give him in return. so should i just accept those things or juz forget the idea of the dulangs even though its part of the adat?

3) he is making a big hoo haa out of the 1k plus difference in the dowry. i actually wanted to give part of the dowry to my parents, not as "repayment" of them bringing it up but just as a gesture. but he said he forbids me giving a single cent to my parents and that he will want to "take back" the dowry after giving it back to me. his excuse was he's going to use the money to buy furniture for his house.

is it right for me to give in to him in this matter? shouldnt the money be rightfully mine once its given to me?

4) he doesnt want kompang, ok fine. he forbids me from wearing inai, i dunno coz my mom requested for me to wear just normal inai, ie. tip of the fingers. he apparently "prioritise" his smoking rather than the occassion because its a "stressful" occasion for him. and he wans the day to "end" at his day so basically my first night will be over at his place instead of mine.

how do i tell him so he wil actually realise how important this marriage is to me, and for him to realise that i would want this occassion to be smth remembered for the rest of my life, even though its juz a simple affair?

and lastly,
what are your views of "langkah bendul"?
my elder sister is not married, should we be giving her a "langkah bendul" because of this?

its really stressful for me and many a times i actually considered ending the relationship.
would that be a wise choice?

Asker's comment:

i know what happened in his first marriage.
might be surprising for some, i actually also asked his ex wife for her side of the story.

=)

and with regards to me ending the r'ship with him, i take that back coz i am considering that we are already coming into our 3rd yr. hurhur.

true to what u say, this is juz a one-sided story. but if u r in this situation, how would you try to explain to him that as much as he thinks these things are "rubbish", it is still important to you?

=)

huh, ok..so complicated..i began to see stars in screen.

marriage is between 2 people and Allah..why must be an involvement of cultural stuff?

me dont understand. is it a malay wedding or islamic wedding????

Oh oh cik adik, you are in for a rough ride. If you want to go through with the marriage, be prepared to make sacrifices.

He comes across as inconsiderate and insincere. Of course we are only hearing your side of the story, and it may not be a balanced one.

My advice is for you not to rush into this marriage. Take as much time as you need. The problems of Adat, dowry and langkah-bendul may just be the beginning. More difficult issues will arise after marriage.

You should also check what happened in his first marriage.

salaamz,

Getting married is a rewarding experience. Having said that there isn’t any reward without putting in your heart and soul into this ever evolving relationship.

1) if he isn't cool with getting engaged and you wanted to do it boz of ur parents or because you have been together for 3 years... then you all need to get serious with yourselves and discover what is it that is driving you to even want to get engaged and married. Loving someone alone isn't enough to sustain a marriage. It may be enough to sustain a boy -girl relationship though.

2) sound to me that he's either really religious or he doesn’t want to spend unnecessarily.
I'm confused about the words you used. dowry and hantaran, hence I'm going to go by these definitions below to reply to your question.

Dowry= 'mahar' or mas kahwin (which is compulsory in an Islamic marriage. minimum of $100 sgd in Singapore is required.)

Hantaran = marriage expenses. (which is a customary gift, usually in cash, given by the Groom to his bride's family for the Walimah. The Hantaran rate must be agreed upon by both parties.)

The groom needs to pay for the wedding after all. If you want to share some of the expenses, by all means. But i'm not sure about the other gifts ie. the clothes, fruits, sweets etc. I don't think it is call a gift if he doesn't want to gift it to you?? What is the point if he's not supportive? You may get your custom (adat) but the both of you may not be happy in this marriage.

When I got married, i made my wedding small and as simple as possible. I did away with any custom (adat) that would tarnish the purity of our wedding. After all, the Malay culture is derived from Hinduism. I did away with the so call showing of gifts on the tray and the 'bersanding' (blessing ceremony)and i tried my best to get rid f the dais (pelamin) but my mum was very upset with me for getting ride alot of the important cultural aspect..so I sorta compromise to have the dais which i hardly use.

3) the rule of thumb is, if anyone gifts you something in general it is yours. They do not have any right to control on what you wanna do to their gift. Now u mention dowry which i think u meant the wedding expenses...he definitely do not have a say in how u spent it. The same goes for the Mahr even if he divorce you. He has the right to get the mahr back if you initiate the divorce.

If he's making a big fuss abt the wedding expenses, it is vital that you find out why. It may be that he cannot afford it. In Islam, the mahr and wedding expenses shouldn't be so extravagant tht it puts the groom in debt. you need to agree on a cost that is affordable to his financial status.

4) no kompang..hrmm..i didn't have it either, coz it was going beyond my wedding budget. ok..no henna...please find out why? i don't see what is the harm? I had it in my wedding not because of culture but because i see it as a form of art.

girlfriend..you guys need to seriously have a chat about these stuff. It’s not just the wedding that you need to be concern about, but it's more about your life after the wedding.

I got married to a foreigner who doesn't share my culture and customs ( luck for me he likes inai/henna :P) When we were planning our wedding i had to overcome alot of obstacles. There were many things that required alot of explanation in terms of how wedding takes place in my culture like the showing of the wedding expenses, gifts, staying at his place or mine after the wedding etc... We had to sort out all these things and also discuss our expectation of each other after we are married. He did pay for the wedding expenses and Mahr happily. We both bought each other gifts which we didn’t display it for all to see. I find that it is more sincere that way. It was hard for him to grasps the idea that he didn’t have any right on the wedding expenses that he gave me at first, but eventually after explaining to him in many shapes and form, he eventually understood.

There are some customs that is the 'law of the land' and has to be followed and its not against Islam and some which causes insult to each other's side of the family and some which isn't recommended in Islam.

What's disturbing to me in this situation is to wonder how is your marriage gonna be rather than the wedding. Remember this is just the beginning of what is to come. I hope the both of you can spend some time and come clean with each other not just about the wedding ceremony but how your married life is gonna look like, expectations, who takes care of the finances, how is money spent, how's will decision making be done, if there's a disagreement how are the two of you gonna come to the same page, is culture an issue for him etc...

hope that helps.

Asker's comment:

thank you for all your replies. appreciates it lots.

to ah xuan:
i am a muslim and i am a malay. yes its a muslim marriage also a malay marriage. one of my cousin married a chinese, she is a muslim and her husband converted. but they still went through the tea ceremony, with my cousin in tudung and all. which was kinda cute. =)
and they got married muslim style too.

marriage, from my understanding, is between 2 ppl and Allah but the ceremony itself is actually a way to "announce" that we are legally married, so as not to invite gossips.

wat race are u, if u dun mind me asking?
because i understand that each race has their own customs and culture, right?

to z:
yeah. understand that these issues are only the beginning. thus explaining why i am actually sitting on the fence. if he cant compromise in a relationship, how can i be sure that he is willing to compromise in this marriage.

what happened in his first marriage, well, i dont think its apt for me to share it here due to confidentiality issues. i spoke to him, to his ex wife and even to his mom - juz to be sure of the real story. =)

to nasibriyani:
sorry! will keep those points in mind the next time i post a question/reply. =)

to fir2man:
i told him before that when he marries me, its equivalent to marrying into my family. haha. =P

realistically speaking, i am not asking for too much for the 'hantaran" (sorry, now i am confused with what's the english word for "hantaran"). initially, he wanted to give me 5k for hantaran, then i upped it to 6kplus. when i told my parents & elder bro was kinda, urmmm, shocked? so they basically sat me down and talk abt how the standard of living is and at least, they say, try to make it 7k. i am not asking for too much really, in my point of view, because i know he can afford it, IF he saves. but the prob is, he dont and when i tried talking to him about it, his excuse would be he has 2kids to take care off.

but i noe that majority of his $$ is not for his kids but more to his bike, and spending money at pasir gudang. maybe it was also my fault because i gave him support last time but that was even before talks about marriage. but after we decided to get married in 2010, i think he shudnt be spending $$ unnecessarily but instead to save up.

by the way, i like the last part of your reply, may i use quote it on my blog? =)

to thingi:
what is drivingme to get married is because i would want to spend the rest of my life with him and to be the mother to his kids as well as, insya'allah, our kids.

religious? hmmm. i am hoping that he would start praying even before we get engage actually. because cant possibly i be the imam when we get married and lead him in the prayers, right?

i am not asking him to pay for my wedding expenses. i've already started saving up since i started working full time for my wedding. i'll be paying it 100% but i thought maybe with the hantaran, i could use it to "top up" some of my expenses.

so basically, the expenses will be 100% borne by me. (except for the community centre which will be borne by my bro and sis-in-law)

he was ok with the dulang thing, i wasnt asking alot. not until like 10 over 20over dulang that i always see when my relatives got married. all i asked for was "persalinan" (ie. a baju kurung or cloth for baju kurung), fruits, "manisan" (ie. sweets/cakes), the $$ and a ring. there wun be a sireh junjung either, even though according to adat, sireh junjung actually symbolises the girls' virginity but we make do without that because it will be a waste of $$.
then we had an argument which caused him to say that he wont be sincere in giving me those gifts.

i won be having a wedding dais and all. its really a simple wedding, just a table for the bride and groom to sit at when eating. that's it.

kompang wise, i had a talk with my family and they are fine with it already. so there wun b kompang.
but the inai part, its just because he dont like inai. thats it. thats his reason.

and as of now,
i am still thinking on whether i should just go on with this 3yrs relationship or just end it.

but i still thank you all for the inputs.

thank you!

Wasalam.

Salaam Thiraonthenet,

I almost forgot this nugget of knowledge.

To know what a person love most, see where he/she spends most of his/her money on.

Remember, marriage is for life, don't think that he/she will change during the course of wedded life.

Some habits or traits are unchangeable, no matter how hard you try to change.

And remember what is his intention of him marrying you.

What 'niat' intention, what his niat, just like all muslim come to prayer, what are our intentions in life.

Wasalaam

Fir

btw thiraonthenet

feel free to use the statement~! I came up with it when I was typing the reply.

fir

Dear Thira,

From what you have described to us, it seemed that the other party is just not willing to do anything other than tying the knot. Personally, I think that one should not get married just for the sake of getting married. It should be a joyous & delightful occasion for both sides! Dulang hantaran(gifts) is just a custom, but hey, wouldnt it be nice to recieve & give some? It really does look lovely U know. About the $5K hantaran thingy, I'd have to agree that it's also customary, but if the guy could not afford to give, then why get married? Giving the wang hantaran (monetary gift) to ur side is basically just abt whter he can afford to support you in future. If he cant even afford some few thousand dollars as a gift to u, how do u expect ur life to be after marriage? Theres a fine line between being culturally inclined & being plain stingy with the future wife. Well this is just my opinion. I suggest you solat istikhorah, just seek God's help in deciding whther he is the one for you, if you cant decide it urself. Like others said, marriage is for life, its not bout the expenses, but I feel that he should be able to fulfill some simple requests from ur side, otherwise, whats the point. Cant have this, cant have that. Remember, its not just abt u n him, its abt ur parents as well. Dont disappoint them just to please ur guy. Not everyone can have their dream weddings, coz those types would cost more than the normal $20K. But sometimes, the guy must make you happy during the wedding, not do away with many many many things that u had initially wanted.

Dear thiraonthenet,

just a suggestion: Ask him "Do you love me?"

I spent a lot on the person that I love, cant really explain why, but I like buying beautiful things for him, maybe its just one of my ways of expressin luv.