Q. The concept of 'Mahr'

Personally, I think that it is not necessary to give "Mahr" to the brides when they get married. Nowadays, one marries for love. As far as I know, one has to give S$88 as "Mahr" to a bugis bride which is higher than the normal price.

With regards to your second point, it signifes as a trading deal - men give money to women in return for "?????" (it can be anything: women as slaves for life, etc).

On your third point, I would say that it means that men can control the women cos they buy them in actual sense.

The presence of "Mahr" has be set up long time ago and I would be very interested to know how this all started. Why is it from men to women?? - cos men are known as the stronger sex and women are the weaker sex.

I hope that the above answers your questions.

How is it a means to control women?

it's a legitimate question because in hindu culture, men are essentially 'bought' as well.. arent they?

i was in a taxi the other day talking to a hindu guy. i asked him what the pay is like here, the standard of living for taxi drivers, and other so-called 'blue-collar' workers....

he tells me that his savings have been primarily to 'buy' a husband for his daughter. he's now in a financial mess, and wonders whether he'll recover because it took him years of hard work to be able to 'afford' this person.

its funny coz people are now an investment opportunity.

in a modern context, mahr is an outrageous requirement by families, pointing to some sort of 'value' system reflecting how 'important' that person is.. and just how 'worthy' the person has to be.. therefore you 'pay' the requireed amount, then you're deemed as worthy...

i don't see that as control on the part of women. although i'd see is as some sort of 'payback' on the part of men, many of whom have the mindset that "heck i paid this much for you, you answer to me now"....

i do point to a modern context because we as muslims choose to think modernity now implies economic means to further make life dificult for other people.

haven't we progressed.

oh and by the way.. it isn't a social ill in the 'east' only.. countless cases are faced like this in the 'west'.

so no i don't think it's a means to control women. because it's not only women that are faced with this problem. i think it's short-sighted to think mahr and other requirments of marriage are primarily effecting the female population because you see whole communities effected regardless of gender.

Asker's comment:

The hindu example is an inheret exception. I should have included it. Perhaps I should have said, 'Mahr' is an abstract slavery system....

There's a theory that says females dominated society, goddes not gods were there, inheretance was through mothers, motherhood was the whole thing in the family which included fatherhood, which was born later, and took over...

I think 'Ebony' the term 'payback' confused me a bit. Wouldn't you agree that payback requires exchange of at least value with value, or value with goods. Which in this case value with perhaps goods!!!!

Which brings us back to control! but we have a nice term to use 'payback' for the long lasting service perhaps!

There's no doubt that it effects both genders. I wanted to know why this concept was introdyced, and how important it might be to women, what would it mean etc!

Besides there are lots of confusing versus in Qura'an. E.g. In the forth Surat (Al-Nesa; women) it somehow states " Once you enjoyed them pay them " (my translation I might be wrong)

hmm....i think its a form or symbol of love where one is willing to go to the extend of showing how much the bride means to him (money term..all the other necessaries..like make up,a duck made up of dollar bills etc)expressing his love....
haha....i'm not sure whether what i meant to say came out rite...hmmm

In my personal view, mahr is not about buying a bride, or it's a reflection of men control woman as someone posted earlier.
The purpose is to help the bride's family(ease the burden) with the expenses of the wedding. It's that simple. :)

Cheers.

i think what just sharing is mentioning is the hantaran not mahar? correct me if im wrong?

A hantaran, (marriage expenses) is a customary gift, usually in cash, given by the Groom to his bride's family for the Walimah. The Hantaran rate must be agreed upon by both parties. (acording to ROMM) i think this is the wedding expense.

for mahar...in singapore its only $100 sg dollars.

for other cultures the mahar (in my understanding) is highly priced...hence the question. its our equivalent to how hantaran is highly priced in Singapore.


i think whatever it might be, ( high priced for mahar or vice verse)....its very wrong to do such a thing. getting marriage shouldn't be a burden on the men and women. although i don;t see it as the men controlling the women..its more like the other way round :P

ethically it wrong to put through someone to save their money all their life just to pay for their wedding. its very unislamic. Islam made it very simple to get married. it should be within people's means when mahar or hantaran is paid.

Asker's comment:

"achi" intresting reply...

Though the concept of Mahr had developed a bit, perhaps I was refering to all mariage expenses in general....

(if memory serves) back in the days there were different levels of mariages and wives. In modern context the legitemate ones are the ones where you pay them!
It's hard to explain the meaning of word mahr in english, but Mahr in arabic indicates some sort of tipping!!!!!
(I might be wrong, correct me if so)

Other types of wives were lower, and didn't deserve that, besides they can be shared and moved around sort of thing...

In Qura'anic context, there are wives (paid Mahr) and those who are paid as "slaves" (Malakat alyamean) i.e. paid either by hour, day, months, year, or not paid at all!

Anyhow, I'm curious about this:
Quoting "achi"
"see it as the men controlling the women..its more like the other way round :P "

Intresting I'm keen to know how!

"just sharing" :
Fair enough, I'm just criouce to know from the start why is it that men need to help the family pride, and let's talk about in a broader social context, dont you feel overall it's a male dominated society...

"smildrumez":
See if things that you buy reflect how much you need them, trust nothing would beat water's price, you can't live without it...

While pearls, and diamonds top the list of expensive stuff! they are nothing but two pieces of stones! they mean nothing to our instictive survival requirements...

Buttom line is, why do we need matrial things for instictive survival requirement (oh love to me == sex, a nice way of saying sex)

Cheers

Asker's comment:

"achi" intresting reply...

Though the concept of Mahr had developed a bit, perhaps I was refering to all mariage expenses in general....

(if memory serves) back in the days there were different levels of mariages and wives. In modern context the legitemate ones are the ones where you pay them!
It's hard to explain the meaning of word mahr in english, but Mahr in arabic indicates some sort of tipping!!!!!
(I might be wrong, correct me if so)

Other types of wives were lower, and didn't deserve that, besides they can be shared and moved around sort of thing...

In Qura'anic context, there are wives (paid Mahr) and those who are paid as "slaves" (Malakat alyamean) i.e. paid either by hour, day, months, year, or not paid at all!

Anyhow, I'm curious about this:
Quoting "achi"
"see it as the men controlling the women..its more like the other way round :P "

Intresting I'm keen to know how!

"just sharing" :
Fair enough, I'm just criouce to know from the start why is it that men need to help the family pride, and let's talk about in a broader social context, dont you feel overall it's a male dominated society...

"smildrumez": The argument of value Vs need
See if things that you buy reflect how much you need them, trust me nothing would beat water's price, you can't live without it...

While pearls, and diamonds top the list of expensive stuff! they are nothing but two pieces of stones! they mean nothing to our instictive survival requirements...

Buttom line is, why do we need matrial things for instictive survival requirement (oh love to me == sex, i.e. a nice way of saying sex)

Cheers

Oops..I just realised that I have misunderstood the whole thing. You were asking bout Mahar and not the marriage expenses.. Thanks for highlighting this achi :)
Pardon for the misunderstding..guess was a bit too late on my side when I answered the question (zzZZ..) :p

So to answer the question..well, I second what Achi view on this.. :)

I really don't see what the confusion about Mahr is all about.

Muslim Cultural practice is no doubt just cultural. In no sense is this a reflection of the essence of Islam.

Mahr is the gift that is given by the husband to his wife at wedding. It can be anything in any amount, as agreed by the bride and bride-groom.

Allah says about Mahr in the Chapter `Woman' in Quran:

And give the women (on marriage) their Mahr as a free gift. Qur'an [4 : 4]

If you had given the latter a cantar (of gold i.e. a great amount) for dower (Mahr) take not the least bit of it back ... Qur'an [4 : 20]

Narrated Sahl bin Sa`d: "The Prophet, peace be upon him, said to a man, `Marry, even with (a Mahr equal to) an iron ring.'"

so its really straight forward. If a man wants to get married...give something to your bride. There isn't any mention of controlling or to be controlled. There isn't mention of how much. If a guy has more to give..then give more.

However if there is a minimum amount that is required (like in Singapore) then adhere to it.

Just like all countries have rules and regulation to live in harmoniously...then adhere to the law of the land. (if the laws of the land is doing harm to citizens then voice out, do something about it)

I don't see my family and friends questioning me if i want to give out cash or a free holiday. or free movie, coffee or anything else i wanna give.

I see it (mahr) on the other hand as a loving gesture. A man who is generous, humble and giving. That is an awesome attribute to any human being. What a great start to a marriage. A gift is a gift.

ps: i was just joking about women controlling men. :D

i agree with achi on the 'loving gesture' part.

but i don't understand why the separation of the Mahr and the Hantaran.

back to topic:
love cannot be bought. if for example, i feel like the money is used by my future husband to "buy" me, he will definitely not succeed. i cannot be bought.

in retrospect, if you feel like you are being bought, why would a guy only buy you on the wedding day? he would have bought you since the very first time he took you out on a date or treated you to a movie.

and how is giving money a means to "control" a woman? =) i'd be happy if i received extra cash from time to time from a loving husband. heh! that aside, cultural traditions are traditions. as with time, man has changed and evolved. if you are against the topic and your families don't mind, then just forgo it if possible i guess.

hope that gives a little more food for thought.

my apologies, it is to my NEW understanding that the Mahr is compulsory and has to be witnessed at the nikah.

if you are still violently protesting this action,
take $100 for the Mahr and spend $100 less on your hantaran. problem solved. =D

lol.