Is It My Fault that I do not have any faith in Islam?
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28/10/2007 3:17:31 PMHi 'Supreme Royal',
To be speific to those who are reading this post, the verse by "Supreme Royal" by the phrase, "Allah guides whom he wills" is by accuracy, two in Quran, which isAl Baqarah(The Cow) 2:142,2:213, but I take it in your question you are referring to the general view of the quran on kufars and apostates. Hence you key word in discussion is GUIDANCE from God, so the closest i take for now will be the verse from 2:213 quoted below. Verses relating to guidance from God are plenty, but I shall quote you with some reference for your convenience should you need to refer to Quran in the future :)
(2:213) "Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For ALLAH GUIDED WHOM HE WILLS to a path that is straight".
In the context of the verse, the message was practically for Jews and Christians, and in the verse God( or our God if you prefer) had spoken, that messenger or prophets had been sent to the peoples before and then to correct their perverse acts and belief and worship the God, enjoying acts of good conscience,morality and charity (2:43), to exhort one another to goodness (103:1-3) . And God's guidance clearly, despite differences, corruptions and variations in different religions existing on Earth, have been similar, including Islam. That was the explanation on verse 2:213 above.
Your question is "is it my fault that I do not have faith in Islam". Certainly, the first thing is, what is/are question(s) that you do not believe in any religion or Islam ? God is not fair? God cannot be seen? God does not love? Well, humans , you and me alike, unfortunately are born innate to worship.A proof perhaps? IF, say, you do not worship God, you already obviously 'worship' something else. You will 'worship' your favourite idol and superstars, you'll 'worship' your favourite sport(s) like soccer till you willing to stay awake the whole night, like the World Cup, and also sacrifising your whole weekend practising you hobbies. You also be 'worshiping' cars or bikes and till you're willing to waste your entire bonus and hard earned sweat for it, you 'worship' money by working overtime till you don't eat or sleep or rest. And many time you unknowingly 'worship' yourself, like women enjoying themselves in the fashion clothes in changing rooms during window shopping, or men simply mesmerized by their well built bodies in the mirror after gym sessions.
Try not believing or putting you love and faith in anything above or more, and I guess you would say life is as good as dead anyway huh... The Quran says in 6:32" Naught is the life on this world (for a human) save a pastime and a sport....Have ye then no sense?"
Then you continued. "if He guides only He wishes..kufars and apostates fault that they are not muslims..". So as a human, what is your wish for God be guiding you for? Believing in Him or to your human ends like money, women, protection, power, road to world peace etc. ?
If you were once muslim, or now christian or buddhist or hindu or Jew, you should know that guidance is a direction to healing a disease in the hearts, and for those who wanted for guidance from wrong(Quran for example from 3:38-150). However it not true the other way around as in the verse, "God not wronged mankind in aught; but mankind wronged themselves"(10:44), which states a human fallency to their own destruction and state of loss.
A popular phrase "Rules are made to be broken" clearly encourage a step towards trouble huh ? Must it be that only when sadness or catastrophe fallen to a human then will they repent to a God like in verse 10:51 (is it (only) then, when it( the doom) befallen you, then will you believe?..when (until now) you have been hestening yourself (through disbelief)"
Well, there's more to discuss but I guess I'm afraid my post will be too long :( . I'm open to critic, from 'Supreme Royal', or muslim or non-muslins reading this post..
Peace,
Fariz
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30/10/2007 7:12:03 PMHi can I ask you how come you are a Malay and not a Muslim since generally Malay Singaporeans are Muslim although whether they practice their faith is another matter.Just curious.Anyway,grab a Quran with a reliable translation Malay/English and read it.There are many amazing things covered in the Quran etc-Purpose of life,astronomy,geology,history and many more.If you are sincere in finding the right path Allah(God) will guide you.As far as non-believers and apostates go,its between them and Allah.The most important thing is read the Quran with an open mind and an open heart.
May Allah guide you to the straight path.Insyallah.
Peace.
Ali
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1/11/2007 7:34:12 PMI think you're viewing your situation a little too simplistically.
it's not about fault, or blame... i would think it's more about the choices you make.
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1/11/2007 9:17:30 PMCan I just make some critiques about the first 2 responses to this Question.
First of all, if someone like Supreme Royal, or any other non-muslim, or person ....
(or a living entity lol.. dont you just love labels)
... is reading what you guys (or girl) wrote, i would assume that they'd have tuned out by the second paragraph
now, i don't doubt the passion you 2 have for islam, as its obviously displayed in your responses, but it's also quite dogmatic, and 'preachy', that it doesn'tdo any favours for people who are i guess... after an 'answer' they can relate to....
i hope i'm making sense.
for someone who's having 'doubts', or just not 'feeling' religion (excuse the slang - can't be bothered at the moment), they would want to read or attempt understand YOUR point of view - not a regurgitated response that the person could have already read in a leaflet somewhere.
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2/11/2007 8:40:33 PMHi there...
Read and understand the words deeply:
" For each (such person) there are (angels) in succession, before and behind him: they guard him by command of Allah. Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls). But when (once) Allah willeth a people's punishment, there can be no turning it back, nor will they find, besides Him any to protect." (Al-Rad:11)
Read once again this:
"Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls)."
I advise you to read the Quran with an open heart.
My question here for you, what make you not be a Muslim? The Quran, from the Almighty Allah, answer the doubts you have. So, please read it.
Regards,
A fellow human being.
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2/11/2007 11:54:25 PMSalaam to all,
A bit taken by EbOnYTiGReSS esp words bt i take ur post positively :) Apologize to any including Supreme Royal if my posts seems "preachy", "dogmatic" but I assure you my reply to Supreme royal was not about blamehim not being muslim nor trying to "score points" with Supreme Royal.
Firstly Supreme Royal mention three keywords that resulted in my lengthy post reply;namely "faith", "theological" and also the word "frank",. I myself omitted the word "debate" if you read the post, coz Im not expecting anyone to promote inter-religious debate in NasiBriyani.com. posts. Im my post Im defending my thoughts and opinions on these keywords, for those who have read it.
Secondly, the lengthy part was due to the fact I do want people to think Im blabbering, which is the reason for quotation, but by knowledge in Islam and human reasoning. Supreme Royal wants a frank answer and theologically, in fact, so I have to be fair. The last thing people read a reply is when you go off topic to any posted question by non muslim, like "why ur not muslim huh" or "Dont u read the Quran?"..It can be rude and sarcastic to the one who post the question, so I avoided the topic to respect his faith and belief.
It's up to Supreme Royal to take his view on anything. I cannot force or "drown" Supreme Royal to his throat on Islam haha, since the Quran says "there is no compulsion in Islam" (2:256). It's up to him whether he will refer to the quran, or take my or any of the our response logically or emotinally. My reply is not intended to provoke anger or negative implications on anyone, so I apologize again for my previous or this post to anyone.
Salaam to all.
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3/11/2007 11:04:43 AMto threadstarter...
aren't you the one one, in a previous post said that u WERE a Muslim, and b'cos of some sufferings u endured in your life u don;t believe in the existence of God?? and u converted to Christianity, a faith that believes in God. what happened?
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6/11/2007 3:57:50 PMlife is about choices and no one should judge others. Given the present condition, I urge Supreme Raoyal to consider the possibility of Islam again. You get what you seek and only Allah knows what is in your hearts of hearts. As for me, I can only pray for you. Allah says if you walk towards HIM , he will come running towards you. Only you know what you are seeking and hopefully you will find it, Insya Allah.
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7/11/2007 6:54:37 PMPersonally, i feel it's not ur fault (I'm a malay singaporean who is a muslim). Chill.
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8/11/2007 2:51:03 PMPlease read this link on...
1)
What Does It Mean That Allah Guides Whom He Wills And Misguides Whom He Wills?
By
Bassam Zawadi
http://www.answering-christian...
Here the understanding of that verse:
Allah will only guide those who actually want to be guided. If God has already predetermined who would go to hell and heaven without giving us free will then it would be useless for Allah to tell us to strive to be good. So God guides those who strive and put an effort to want to be guided.
2) As for the fault
Like many members here pointed it's no body's fault. just choices we each make in our life. And we know that in the Quran it says " there's no compulsion in religion".
Like i once told one of my friend, if Islam is not your choice then be at peace with your choice. There is no need to prove yourself or anyone else rite or wrong. But if you wish to re explore the possibilities of Islam, then by all means.
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8/11/2007 2:58:41 PMLeroy Brown..
Yes Supreme Royal was the one who posted that earlier question.
you can have a look when you look through his/her profile under recently asked question. Clink on his/her nick name in any of his/her post. you will be able to view the profile.
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9/11/2007 1:25:54 PMBusy with work. No time to reply.
The last line that I posted, I am holding a theological debate. Just some frank answers....
Is wrong. I am NOT holding a..... typo.
Anyway, yes I was a muslim from a buddhist family....I see no sense is all religion.
So yeah, I am not here to listen to arguments made to me.. I just want to listen your views when Allah says only He will guide whom He wishes...
So when you posted things like, I am looking at it in simplicity... isn't that what religion suppose to be? To have ease of mind. And not cloud myself with questions...
And then someone put "Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls)."
Now, this makes it more contradicting for me.
I know you all are muslims and will put verses and even defend Islam... But what i need now is logical answers... not answers straight from the book. If it is, I can just read and find out myself....
And does it matter what I am in the first place? Must I tell you people what I do for a living, where I stay? My name? My parents name?
Well, Im sorry for sounding harsh.
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9/11/2007 2:50:56 PMI would like to put my two cents into the discussion. I am looking at this from the other side of the fence if you will. I left Christianity for Islam, after taking the time to study Islam. Beofre I converted I had a lot of questions regards Christianity and some very large conradictions in the theology of it all, and the only answers leaders of the church could give me is that you have to have faith. Yet at the same time in reading the Quran, I felt a closeness to the words and something touched me.
Now the ayat in question, Allah guides whom He will, was first in regards to why family members of the Prophet didn't conver, namely his uncle, who was close to Muhamad yet would not accept the message. as for it's implications towards others, there are those who feel no connection to Islam, ones beliefs are not inherited as many believe. It is something that you must feel and choose. Islam is the willful submission to the creator of all things. You would first have to believe that there is a God before you could even come close to thinking about submitting to one. As for the person that started this post, I am confussed, in another post you say you are now christian leaving Islam, yet here you say you were a buddist and don't believe in God at all.
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9/11/2007 3:32:43 PMHi Supreme Royal,
Introduction
--------------
Firstly, you are never harsh in your posts. I myself experienced much more 'sweet and sour' discussions woth others than you think. You gave a fair judgement in your opinion, I will not question nor pose negative thoughts your faith. This is a fair world, everyone has an opinion to believe :)
The so-called "contradicting" verse ??
----------------------------------
Firstly, Im happy that you amazed me with quote ""Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls)." (Ar-Rad 13:11 for your reference). But for everyone in the post to know the context of the verses, which you seemed missing to explain, will be shown below.
But Mr Supreme Royal, like many i know in theological debate, are quite common to 'play quoting' without completing the verse, so I wil give the FULL verse on behalf of the you, and all who read this thread;
(013.011) For each (such person) there are (angels) in succession, before and behind him: They guard him by command of Allah. VERILY NEVER WILL ALLAH CHANGE THE CONDITION OF A PEOPLE UNTIL THEY CHANGE IT (their state of goodness) THEMSELVES (in committing sins and being ungrateful and disobedient to Allah). But when (once) Allah WILLETH a people's PUNISHMENT, there can be no turning it back, nor will they find, besides Him, any to protect. (empahasize of mine in caps)
And (if you remember reading my posts), I DID quote you a quranic verse in which YOU quote in the PREVIOUS post before, and I will repear again for you for your convenience,
(2:213) "Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For ALLAH GUIDED WHOM HE WILLS TO A PATH THAT IS STRAIGHT".
Truth on the "misquoted verses"
-----------------------------
Actually there wasnt a contradiction, Allah guides a person who wants to go straight (or path of righteousness), but he will not change a nation/people if they do not want to change it themselves, should they continue to being evil in their hearts. This is fair even to an athiest or any religious folower. You follow what is right, you'' be safe and even rewarded. You break the law and be stubborn, you are just playing time with death and trouble. if you need to verify, there are many english quran translations in the web or around the world to confirm the quotation.
Contradiction ? Why?
--------------------------------------
You sounded quite sincere i feel, in your explanation, but then, you quote " I am looking at it in simplicity... isn't that what religion suppose to be"?. Strange, why did you (which i hope not purposely), misquote the quranic verse to misunderstood the muslims or non-muslims reading the post?. You DID say "...If it is, I can just read and find out myself". Isnt that a contradiction?
I, even my experience discussion with any Christian or Hindu friends, dare not misquote verses from reading Old/New Testament or the Rig Vedas or the Upanishards, so as to respect each other's purity of their scriptures; a sign of respect from others and not being rude.
And you quoted again, "...I am not here to listen to arguments made to me.. I just want to listen your views ..". How can there be a debate without argumentive topic to start and discuss? If I'm a extreme debater, i will say 'Thaaat is a contradiction..!""
Summary
---------
Before I end this post, I nake it sure that both Supreme royal, me or anyone are not pefect person. I wont be suprised if he/she or anyone say i am contradicting myself in anything haha..We are humans, sometimes our perspective sometimes change and always true, that;s why we learn from lesson i admit. But please do not misquote holy scriptures. I sound quite harsh, I truly apologize to evryone including Supreme Royal, it's just my opinion on this stuff. Im a muslim, i defend the innocent muslim's faith. I'm also singporean, I defend my country's ideal and goals. If no one will defend, then who will ? .
As usual, everyone try not to put any 'hate posts' to Supreme Royal. Rather, give a fair reasoning and opinion. Other non-muslims may be reading this posts, I myself do want people to think that we muslims are unfriendly or rude and stuff..
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9/11/2007 3:38:06 PMOpps..sorry for my poor spelling and structure of words im my previous posts. I'm always in a rush with alot of stuff(work, studies, hobbies ..etc..). I apologize for that inconvenience...
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10/11/2007 3:15:03 PMModerator Comment
Hello to ALL MEMBERS...
I'll like to step in here for a bit. :D
I understand that this question is somewhat interesting and even rare to some members.
Due to the typo supreme royal made, there might be a misunderstanding on how the asker of this question intends their question to be answered.
Many member thought that Supreme Royal wanted a theological debate, but we now know that he/she do NOT want a theological debate. I will make that changes to this question text so that in future other members can read the proper text question.
Despite that typo error most members have provided with their point of view. Some members quoted the Quran in this case since it's Religion related.
If the asker or members do not like some of the answers posted, you guys can vote for a minus. If u like an answer vote for a plus. Added bonus for the asker is he/she can choose to select an answer if he/she likes a particular answer. The points will be awarded to that member whose answer was choosen by asker.
Other actions to take is for asker to come back to the question and redirect the question if it's not clear or there have been a misunderstanding . just like wht Supreme Royal did.
Supreme Royal and the rest, you guys can always email us by clicking on 'contact us' if you need help, like in this instance to change a typo or to enquire about something. :)
Just a reminder (coz i know some of you are new to this website), this site is not created to prove anyone right or wrong, but simply as a source of support, inspiration and information for anyone to benefit from. There are rules regulating this site. We are all entitle to our own point of view or on how we wish to answer the question. We highly encourage that. However do adhere to the most fundamental rule, being respectful to members and diverse view.
So have fun on the site, have compassion and respect for one another.
My deepest acknowledgments to all of you guys who have been stepping in answering and asking question no matter how awkward it might be.
Regards and W'salaam
NB
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11/11/2007 1:20:41 PMThanks for the above people!
Hmmm, again, I shall explain my background, since you all keep harping about it. I was a buddhist, became muslim, became christian. Now... NOTHING!
If this was a christian forum, I would definitely ask them the same question christian related....
So, do not think i am here to try to be "funny" or "play with the system" lol.. cause I do not....
Now, one thing I don't get it.... if all verses were taken out of context... And its intended for certain people at that time... then why is it in there?
Anyway that is not the point.
Back to my question...
(2:213) "Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For ALLAH GUIDED WHOM HE WILLS TO A PATH THAT IS STRAIGHT".
Isnt it the same.... from top to bottom... it is ultimately HIS will........
What else can I do?
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11/11/2007 1:22:45 PMAbout me being malay.... please take note...
Not all malays from beginning of time till now are born muslims.......
i suppose you all get the drift...
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11/11/2007 1:48:24 PMyou want frank? here it is :)
your religion and what you think of it is, how much faith you have is up to YOU. that is the important word here. YOU
what other people think, or how other people see their religion has no consequence or impact on YOUR life. period.
If you want to understand the phrase that you are quoting as only Allah can guide whom he wills, that is YOUR choice.
if that were interpreted like that, then one could argue that there is no choice, we are not capable of doing any actions that we choose of our own doing and be punished or rewarded for them. It is all pre ordained??
No.. I believe that we have the gift from Allah of choice. It is up to us to use it. If we choose to do the actions that are required of us and pray to Allah to guide us, then I believe we will be guided.
Your argument might be valid if after we all die on the day of judgement you are unjustly treated. then you can quote and clarify with the Almighty. But, are we willing to take that chance, by sitting here, resigned to the fact that only he can guide us and doing nothing?
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11/11/2007 1:56:14 PM@ Supreme Royal..
You quoted:
Quran verse (2:213) followed by
Isnt it the same.... from top to bottom... it is ultimately HIS will........
What else can I do?
My question to you is...are you trying to acknowledge that you have chosen the 'not too straight path"??
You sounded like a victim saying "What else can i do?"
second..
Like i explanation in my above post...Those who seek for guidance will find guidance. Like if someone says yes..i want to find out the cure for cancer and does nothing about it...they will never find the cure.
Infact if all they wanna search for is how impossible it is to find the cure for cancer, then that is what they will find. More and more evidence to show that there is no cure to cancer.
So in life application is pretty much the same for anything you want. You get what you seek for.
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13/11/2007 4:53:23 AMi think we all need to chill out. supreme royal, you say that you've tried three religions?
that's quite a feat.
i personally wouldn't have the energy, or motivation to change beliefs, considering that it wouldnt make any sense to me to 'try' religions, mind you, whatever rocks your boat.
have you all noticed though, that religion seems to play a major part in people's lives these days.
whatever you may think of this, i personally 'believe' (excuse the pun), that intellectual capacity needs to take more of a leading role, as oppsed to one's 'feelings', about a certain topic, or your moral justification.
because, unfortunately, the current climate these days, is dictated by people who commit horrible things, because they 'feel' its right, and not due to rationalism/logic.
and really, i think it's disturbing.
so like, how about using your head, first.
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13/11/2007 2:30:20 PMI want views.
But then, since you asked me to use my head, the entire "lounge" needs to use their head too and then it will serve no purpose in having this site. But if your view is to tell me to use my head, then I can get that advice from a 10 year old
Thanks. But I believe, after comments like that, this question serves no purpose anymore... ****
Thanks anyway people.
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13/11/2007 7:58:28 PMi love a good argument.
mind you i'm looking for a CHALLENGING DISCUSSION.
any ideas, be sure to post them up
:)
Thanks very much
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14/11/2007 3:16:38 PMModerator Comment
@ Ebonytigress, Supreme Royal and ALL participants in this Question.
This question is going out of context. NB lounge is not an argument site! This isn't a Forum as well.
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Meaning, answer to the Question. This site operates differently than a Forum.
Your opinion about what you think of each other has no relevance in this website or this Question. What you guys are doing is the direct replica on what is happening in this world! I do not see any respect and integrity to oneself and each other in this Question. NB lounge is created as a community website to support each other, regardless on wht you feel and think abt each other. There is no support here!
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Supreme royal, you had your part to play in your response in being rude as well just like some of the others.
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16/11/2007 5:27:21 PMoh come off it.
first of all, most discussion eventually result in an argument.
it depdens on both sides of the issue, and whether or not both sides believe they are right on the issue.
if you choose to keep this site 'SANITISED'
(Oh yeah, right, that sorta reflects Singaporean society doesnt it), then so beit.
but i'd like to remind you MODERATORS, that the rest of the world isn't like that.
and no, the muslim world doesnt revolve around sanitised issues.
i think the latest Questions on the site reflect that.
also, you claim that this site has no agenda, and is non-judgemental.
can i just say that - there is no institution, website, or think-tank , that DOESN'T have an agenda, or isn't judgemental.
personally i think it's a little naive to believe that you aim to be 'non-judgemental' (which i'm still figuring out just what that means)
oh, and the rules that impose, means that you are judgemental, because you threaten to ban members.
sigh. i'm a little annoyed. perhaps a suggestion to an improvement to this site is that admitting that you do have an agenda, and that you have boundaries. becuase people really aren't gonna buy the opposite.
plus i resent you deleting my comment because i myself find it offensive to be called RUDE by what's-its-name, when i'm the one taking the time to give MY OPINION to SUPREME ROYAL'S moral dilemma.
so in that context, SP's would be considered abusing members.
****
****
i'm done.
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18/11/2007 1:54:32 PMModerator Comment
This Question is now closed.
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I am a malay. But not a muslim fyi.
In the Quran, it states, only Allah guides whom He wishes...
So, the question is, if He guides only He wishes, is it my fault still that I do not have any faith in Islam? Is it kufars and apostates fault that they are not muslims? Since only Allah will what He wants....
I am not holding a theological debate. Just some frank answers....
125 pts
rookie
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